This is a cross post in the form of a response on the egnorance blog reproduced here due it it's infernal nature.
It is the lengthy response to an exchange between myself and a self professed materialist 'KW'.
KW had responded to a post that described the Christian (Theist in general) Love for God.
KW wrote this in what I would describe as an attempt at mocking the irrelevance of organized religion or morality to his world view.
"So all it takes to get into heaven is good deeds. Great! I'm good to go!"
Theology? I had no idea, KW!
It takes LOVE, not just good deeds. Real OBJECTIVE good. Not 'playing nice'.
Look, KW, I realize you are not being serious and you are totally set in your views...but I will respond for others who may be more flexible in their ideas and who may stumble across this exchange. I will attempt to be as secular and broad/simple in my terms as possible - so folks can understand me.
In Christianity, the motive for your being 'good' is what is central.
You must want, understand and LOVE being good - REAL, objective good.
You must respectfully and happily live out the will of the 'Father' of all things.
Kindness, mercy, forgiveness, altruism must be your GOAL; your end not your means.
You must attune to the 'word' (or signal, maybe even 'thought'- if you like) of morality that is an inherit part in all things, and recognized and conveyed into physical reality by human will and intuition.
In Christianity, our theology teaches us the creed of Love.
We LOVE the Father, and ALL of His creation. We are of him, and he is within us.
Merely avoiding evil and being civilized are seen as normal, expected hazards to the course.
An Example by contrast:
A man may do an evil thing due to his desires, fears, or lust; but, later realizes he has done evil and therefore repents. It is believed that this man can make amends or penance, and that he is ultimately forgiven for his human weakness, so that he may enter a state of 'grace' and this leads him to what is often described as an 'afterlife' in modern language- but would more properly be described as REAL-life or even the maturation of being. He is transformed by his Love and the will of God into something more than he was before. In common terms this is described as 'Heaven'.
OR...
Another man does just as many good deeds, but is consistently, quietly, and unrepentantly evil in some matters.
This Second Man does much less than resist, and he NEVER feels guilty or shamed by his immorality. He actually enjoys the rebellion of it. The immorality appeals to him, as he sees morality as a CAGE. This begs the question: Will he be forgiven? To this the only answer is another question: 'Will he ask to be forgiven?'
If not where is he destined for after the material world is done with him? After 'death'.
We can only speculate... most of us. But there is a wisdom and a history of thought we can draw from. If I draw from the Scripture of my faith, and from a certain instinct or intuition I am hard pressed to (and somewhat reluctant) to identify: I don't think it's a positive outcome.
I get the feeling that: 'It's not good to be evil.'
In fact, there are a thousand plus interpretations of this understood truth in the Christian faith alone. What it means, who is who etc. But there is a recognition of culpability and the need to atone for it. There is an escape hatch for sinners.
In the broader faith community there are different angles on this truth again. Some quite severe, others almost passive. But our second man does not give a hoot about ANY of that. The rules are made to be broken, not obeyed or even bent. The various faithful and obedient will vary in style of worship and even ritual, but Evil always wears the same garb. Always manifests the same desires.
I DO know what our second man would generally hope for the length of their whole lives in this
respect. They will and enforce a view/hope that there is NOTHING.
No meaning, no purpose, no afterlife, no God, no real morality, no Judgement of worth... nothing. That all is futile, so you may as well 'enjoy' life.
But, what do they mean by 'enjoy'? It seems that usually translates into 'DEFILE' in some way. To make a hobby, career or even life's work of rejecting and pushing back the objective laws of morality.
What does that mean for them?
There are many interpretations from many hundreds of years of theological study... but there is one that jumps out at me: 'The Second Death'.
The Lord, being merciful, may give our second man over to the sum of all his hopes and desire: NOTHING. Could he be deleted from the book of life by his own desire? To have never have been, in the here after. To literally cease to exist.
To be 'digital' about it, as so many of my young associates and my son can often be (in language, anyway) we could phrase the ideas as like being self-removed by a reality 'patch' in the next, improved level of existence. A corrected glitch, removed from the alpha code process leaving only properly functioning algorithms to pass into the next, refined reality with exact and perfect purpose.
It may seem to the reader that much of what I have written here is of a personal perspective on specific interpretation of metaphysical and religious ideas on the immaterial; they would be correct. That is all I have. It is all any of us have.
But, it is a whole UNIVERSE more than the NOTHING that is monistic materialism and it's theological whore: Atheism.
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